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Most books say they did not. In those good old days of the 1960s the ducks flew just above the cattails and shots were plentiful. This is not John Waynes revolver it is a modern work of art! Manufactured in 1959. However, Winchesters ribs were not marked with the Simmons name and Kansas City address as mine is. the ventilated rib is by simmons gin works. Alarm calls! The history of Oliver F. Winchester (1810-1880) and his endeavors in the manufacturing of fire-arm sat Bridgeport and New Haven, Connecticut, is filled with circumstances that could have led to corporate failure. And you are not right about them becouse the model 12 evolved over time with improvements you didn't seem to catch becouse you are probable not a shooter. My 1951 Winchester Ammunition Handbook gives a comparison of 17 to 11 feet at 60 yards. An offset proof mark will boost the value compared to an aftermarket rib. winchester model 12 description: for sale is a very nice vintage winchester model 12, 12ga ga shotgun. The near nine-pound Model 12 duck gun is an anachronism among todays waterfowl hunting shotguns. It is not as slow or pokey as one might expect. The staff shot skeet with the gun and concluded It is not as fast as the standard Model-12, but nearly so., In further shooting tests the staff found We could not discern any practical difference in recoil effect when shooting standard three inch heavy duck loads. Winchester supplied two boxes of 3-inch shells loaded with 1 3/8-ounces of #5 chilled shot pushed by four drams equivalent of powder. Whether you're looking for a truck gun, something for the bug out bag, or a do-anything firearm we have you covered. To elaborate on lowgun's response, the "round post" rib was made by Simmons, not Winchester. 1935 3" magnum offerd, will convert all 12 gages if wanted to 3" magnums, the begining of the long forcing cone. A red rubber Winchesterre coil pad was added the first year of production. Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without Winchester stated both 2 1/2 and 2 3/4 shells perform satisfactorily in this [duck] gun. The ejection port of the duck gun is about 1/8-inch longer than the standard port. Saint Charles, Missouri. Metal parts of the Model 12 are machined from chrome-molybdenum, the toughest, longest wearing and finest gun steel known. Barrel lengths were 30 or 32 inches, but 32-inch barrels were discontinued in 1948. Model 12 Skeet Pump Shotgun. Loose bolts and excess head-space occur only after long service. 31 12 ga. pump shotgun w/ Simmons ventilated rib - walnut checkered stock & forearm - & 30" Stock is very fine, with light scratching, pressure dents and an attractive grain pattern. . would buy from again without hesitation, Smith & Wesson S&W Vintage Screwdriver 8 Row Knurled Handle used (#234907824646), Remington 700 stamped metal Magazine Follower .222 .223 .17 used nice (#334728927905). In the 1950's Winchester's costs were losing pace with what they were ablle to sell their products for. But I manage to concentrate, find the combination, and center a pair of easy sprigs. The barrels and receivers of Model 12 duck guns are made from Winchester Proof Steel. This steel was first used in the Model 21 double introduced in 1931. Thomas C. Johnson came to Winchester in 1885 and remained a dedicated employee until his death in 1934. Ernie Simmons had a close relationship with Winchester & John Olin; if you find any NSSA ,ATA, Field & Stream and Sports Afield magazines pre-war and post war you'll find he sold plenty of Winchesters out of his gun shop and attended many shoots selling target guns. Smith brand, by the A.H. Fox Company of Philadelphia, by Parker, and by Ithaca. I was in Jr college then. Charles Askins, in an article entitled Long Range Shotguns in the January 1930 issue of the American Rifleman, concludes that a 12-gauge magnum with 1 3/8-ounces of shot, patterning 80% or better is pretty reliable [on ducks] at 65 yards. However, Askins goes on to say I have never, personally, had a shotgun which would reach far enough. Before the eight gauge was banned in 1918, Askins had a Greener eight-gauge double with 36-inch barrels weighing 13 pounds. Then people would choose a grade of model 12 and add or change things to ther hunting or shooting style. a post would have spent 281.5 hours trying to correct off handed remarks as a expert about winchester model 12's & 42's. Winchester symbol # G1285S. Save my name and email to use for future comments. Another sign of an after factory rib were the numer of 30" Full field guns later ribbed either with Simmons or MoneyMaker ventilated ribs, but the top milled groove in the receiver was a dead-give-away as to that, and when the Model 12 ruled the ATA roost, I am sure many "newbies" bought those modified and restocked field guns and thought - "Wow- now I have a Model 12 Trap gun- look out Vandalia, here I come"--I have several post 1935 12 gauge Model 12 buttstocks and also 18 ring forearms in my "parts boxes, also older logo and non-logo repro 12 gauge black bakelite buttplates-the 16 and 20 and 28- all on the same size receiver, take the same stock configuration. When I went to the university in a different town I worked for another gun shop that was an authorized Winchester Repair Center. THE VENTILATED RIB IS BY SIMMONS GIN, 16ga, Full Choke, 26" barrel with a bright and shiny bore. Refresh your browser window to try again. Winchester installed Simmons ribs and Simmons-designed ventilated ribs for several years. Both shotguns shot to point of aim and all patterns were contained on the target paper due to precise aiming, facilitated by placing a 25-pound sack of lead shot between me and the gun butt. Checkered stocks and extension slide handles were available as options on the standard grade throughout most of the duck guns production. I don't believe their ever was a royalty, actually Simmons kept selling his special vent rib model 12's after the 1955 introduction of the Winchester Special Vent Rib @ New Haven. Thought behind it was that a taller rib on the bbl and a higher comb on the stock would help prevent "head lifting". When winchester changed the chamber to 3" did they mark the barrels or reproof? Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. I RATE THE BLUING AT 98% AND THE WOOD AT 96+%. At a reasenable Price, you can have that gun you allways wanted without all this drama. Rudy was well known with model 12' s and pre-64 model 70's now as far a Felix, he's in a better place now. Thats like spending 12 days straight day and night. 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. Clear (Winchester Wikipedia Page) 22 Item(s) Found Page 1 1. You are also correct that the different rib styles used on Model 12's can get confusing..EG. the store. Twelve magnum guns grew lighter over the years and consequently kick harder. Optional dimensions for straight or pistol grip stocks, grip caps, front sights and recoil pads were also among early options. I would think if you did shoot you proble flinch like heck becouse ther must be a lot of jerk in you. And for this reason the spike in prices for the forty two will go back down becouse there is a alternative that is for sure and safe and they know all the things that people look for to see if it came from the winchester factory. Manufactured in 1959. On the other hand, a duck caught in the middle of one of these dense-centered pattern sat 40 yards would receive a dozen or more pellets. Thanks for the reference. Thus it was that the American Rifleman staff thought it odd that Winchester brought out the 3-inch chamber in their Model 12 pump gun. Original appearing donut post and round post vent rib Model 12s with no Simmons markings and proof marks in the proper places are generally thought by collectors to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. It is in excellent condition with only light handing marks, Used Browning BT99 Plus 12 gauge 28" bbl fixed choke mod good condition no box no manuals Buyer pays shipping Millers Gun Center Located in New Castle, Delaware "Home of TAX, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 16GA PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN, 26" BBL, 2 3/4, POLY CHOKE, RIBLESS, EJECTORS, SINGLE TRIGGER, MEDIUM DARK FIGURED WALNUT, PISTOL GRIP, LOP 14 3/8, 1 1/2, 2 5/16, 7LBS 3OZ, 985 BLUE, Winchester. Winchester Model 12 28 Gauge (W9229) Price: $3,250.00 Item Number: W9229 Previously sold Winchester Model 12 28 Gauge shotgun. Winchester made changes to the stock of the Model 12 duck gun after its introduction. I decided to test the patterning of the five loads detailed in the accompanying table. Bluing is in overall very good condition. Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. Harold Williamson, in his book Winchester, The Gun That Won the West, relates that the new management of Winchester embarked on a program that involved an extraordinary departure from the companys previous operations and the investment of borrowed capital in large amounts. Winchester struggled through a decade of inept product diversification that was terminated by the Great Depression. of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. A lot of us will have to begin learning to hit long-range ducks. Sounds like an invitation to join the long-range duck hunting cult! I included tungsten polymer shot because it is non-toxic to waterfowl and has the same density as lead. L.O.P. Some late duck guns came with special order Hydro-Coil stocks, according to Madis. Mfg 1917, 25" Barrel, Mod, Correct Forend and Buttstock, Small chip out of toe of butt plate, Wood is not damaged, Good Bore, Pictures show condition, Buyer pays 50.00 shipping Pa residents add 6, This Winchester Model 12 is a post 1972 gun with a "Y' prefix serial number. First of all was the end of management by people who were not familiar or sympathetic with the gun and ammunition business. The Olins were avid duck hunters. The original "Old milled rib" was developed by Winchester in the 1920's- but like so many of the older quality features, post WW11 competition by Remington and Ithaca made Olin-Winchester more "cost concerned"-- Many Model 12's were equipped with Simmons ribs afterwards, some were sent to New Haven by Simmons, and some Model 12's (and others . Buckingham is jump-shooting with his big double gun. A new chamber ring and a # 1 heavy draw adjusting sleeve. 30" Full choke barrel. We have a Winchester Model 12 1940's gun. Checkered semi-fancy walnut pistol grip stock with extended forearm and a solid Winchester recoil pad. Winchester was bankrupt and went into receivership in January 1931. View cart for details. WARNING! The Olins were businessmen first and duck hunters second. As you know that, Winchester Model 12 (factory original) 28-gauge pump action shotgun. Serial numbers match on barrel and receiver. Only rib extensions of the same width as the factory ventilate drib are found on receivers of duck guns. John Olin wanted a new 3-inch .410 shotshell with 3/4-ounce of shot for Winchesters new Model 42. No Reserve. Lot 6593: Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun . Nickel and ivory sight beads on the aftermarket Simmons rib, with choke marked full and 2 3/4 inch chamber. Has 30" barrel choked Full. A milled rib Model 12 is a milled rib Model 12, but the terminology is used a bit loosely. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Beautiful grain pattern and very tight hand checkering on the stock . Houze relates that for the Model 12 the Watrous report suggested improve the smoothness of the action as it is criticized for being rough. How this was to be accomplished is not related but closer hand-fitting and gauging of parts was likely. I believe the blueing to be original. Made in 1928, 12 Gauge, 28"" barrel. Smith Double Barrel Shotgun $250 Mar 24, 2023 Browning "Twenty" Semi Automatic Shotgun $200 Mar 24, 2023 Browning "Light Twelve" Semi Automatic Shotgun $200 Mar 24, 2023 Browning Pump Action Shotgun $150 Askins wrote in his 1929 book Modern Shotguns and Loads: Perhaps half the game that is killed in America today is shot with repeating shotguns, pump or automatic. However, the Model 12 duck gun should still be an excellent long-range waterfowl shotgun with the right ammunition. Everything functions as it should. The gun weighed 8 1/2 pounds with its 32-inch Full choke barrel. Length of pull is 14". It would stop ducks consistently at 80 yards. Two years after Askins wrote the above, he received from Ithaca the first 3 1/2inch Magnum 10 double off the assembly line. SAME RECEIVER AS MODEL 12 BUT MAD, Guns Listing ID: 640773MAKE - WINCHESTERMODEL - 12FINISH - BLUEDBARREL - 28\"CALIBER - 12 GAUGECAPACITY - N/AGRIPS - WOODCONDITION - VERY GOODFEATURES - HYDRACOIL STOCK & MODIFIED BARREL, Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 gauge EARLY Serial # Up for sale is a used Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 ga, 2 3/4" chamber, 24" VR barrel stamped full but reads IM on a bra, Winchester - Model 12 Factory Try-Gun, 12ga. Classic Browning Light Twelve Auto-5 Review: Busting Clays With the Old Humpback Shotgun. Some patterns of #4 shot might let a duck escape if it were caught just inside the margin of the 30-inch circle. Has a Cutz on the end of the barrel. Franklin W. Olin founded Western Cartridge Company in 1898. 4 chilled shot.. So a shooter really doesnt need a rib. The old trap shooters didn't and they did just fine. I believe that Stadt's book is one of the few that actually states that Winchester did produce M42s with Winchester vent ribs. From its debut until the end of the 1950's, the Winchester Model 1912 was the pump shotgun, long known as "the perfect repeater." Writing in the March 1927 issue of the American Rifleman, Askins reports that his Remington Model 10 12-gauge pump averaged 89% of 1 1/4-ounces of shot in a 3-inch circle at 40 yards. The silhouette provides a precise aiming point. John Olin initiated an analysis of Winchesters commercial line in 1942. By signing up you agree to Guns.com's The Model 21 received duck gun status in 1940, although 3-inch chambers could be ordered earlier. There was no need to shoot ducks at 60 yards. The 12-gauge 3-inch magnum shotshell was developed to achieve this objective. The Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck Gun Proved Itself a Shooter, Colt No Longer Exclusive Owner of M4 Rifle, Mossberg 940 Pro Turkey & Tactical Review: Shotgun Shangri-La, SHOT Show 2023 Picks: Fossari CRX9 Sporting Over/Under, SHOT Show 2023 Picks: Browning Citori High Grade 50th Anniversary, 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). w/ 22" barrel in original box w/ paperwork 1 of 1,000 #UG5 2 Paul Jaeger Jenkintown, PA. 30-06 cal. But the charm of idle jump-shooting is far too potent.. on your local stores shelf, most retailers drop ship it from a warehouse in Important to note that this gun was made in 1956, the first year for the round post factory installed Special Ve, FOR YOUR VIEWING IS A VERY NICE WINCHESTER MODEL 12 in 20 GA. WITH A VENT RIBBED 26" BARREL AND IC CHOKED. It was a little rough so I am doing a restoration. I wish I had them back! Simmons also removed Solid Ribs from barrels and added his rib to those barrels. A Cold War era classic with smooth lines, a legendary back story, and an exotic-sounding name, Beretta's Model 71 was definitely a mouse that roared. Severe drought conditions gripped the United States and Canada during the 1930s. 14" LOP OVER THE ORIGINAL W, Up for sale I have a 100% NIB Winchester model 12 chambered in 16ga. The balance point is the takedown joint. His handload was a .heavy load of Herco powder and 2 ounces of shot, either 2s or 4s. Deluxe checkered walnut, Its new in the original box with associate paperwork in wrapping paper.. has mi, Metal surfaces rate very good, handling marks to wood. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Winchester Model 12 12 ga 26" oal aftermarket poly choke and vent rib at the best online prices at eBay! Ducks Unlimited was born in 1937 to aid in restoration of wetland breeding areas, primarily in Canada. Model 12 duck guns are highly specialized tools for a very limited number of duck hunters who can regularly center a duck at 40-60 yards, and need to. The slide handle of early duck guns was round with 18 circular grooves. - for PayPal Credit, opens in a new window or tab, about earning points with eBay Mastercard, Report this item - opens in new window or tab. rifle w/ Jaeger Quick Detachable scope mount 3 Remington mod. It looks like it is in very good shape. The 30" vent rib barrel is very good with a bright shiny bo, This Winchester Model 12 in 12 Gauge is in good condition with moderate wear to the wood surfaces and light thinning of the bluing on the barrel. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 13 1/8" LOP. I hope this helps you out A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Recent 3 1/2-inch 12-gauge shells will create dangerous pressure in the 3-inch duck gun chamber. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 14" LOP. Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 28 Gauge Single Family Owned Since 1967, Vent. Winchester ~ Model 12 Trap ~ Pump Action Shotgun ~ 12 Gauge. The used value of a WINCHESTER MODEL 12 shotgun has fallen ($310.78) dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $447.25 . generous return policy, and handle everything you dont have to go back to H. Lea Lawrence relates in his 2001 GUN DIGEST article, The Saga of Bo Whoop, that in 1921 John Olin sent Buckingham his personal heavy double, a custom-choked Super Fox, for testing. Western brought out their Super-X 2-3/4 and 3-inch shotshells in 1921. 80 of 1916 indicates seven empty 12-gauge paper shell lengths (2-1/2 to 3-1/4 inches). Solid rib model 12 made in 1954. Featherweight: same as above; lightweight alloy trigger guard. Teal, mallard, widgeon and sprig [pintail] hover singly and in bunches overhead.